Sit down for this

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Scotty MacFly 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #7892

    Scotty MacFly
    Spectator

    I’ve run into a wee quandary about hooks: all the old British patterns
    call for patterns w/ hook sizes that are different than the sizes we
    use today. This is because the Partridge Co set the standards for hook
    sizes & then, after WWII, Mustad took over & dominated the world hook
    market (as they still do). Well, Mustad sizes are all over the place,
    going by the old Partridge scale – usually one size too big, but not
    always.

    Of course, you use the natural you’re trying to imitate to dictate
    hook size, but aside from that it begs me to wonder: 1.) what if
    you’re tying an old attractor pattern (wet or such) & 2.) what hooks
    sizes/brands were predominately used here in America before WWII? I
    mean, if all those old wet fly patterns that I like to fish were based
    on the Partridge scale, then my ‘fancy’ wets are all too big. Am I
    making any sense? What, if anything, do you know or think about any of
    this? Am I stupid, nuts, or just confused?

    #7895

    Creek
    Spectator

    Have you Googled that? I seem to remember a chart that converted it for you.

    #7900

    Scotty MacFly
    Spectator

    I come up with a good one for you to ponder over and you want me to google it? Is this your way of saying you don’t know? LOL!!!!

    This?
    http://killroys.com/chart/hook-charts/fly-hook-comparison-chart-partridge/

    I noticed this finishing up my other hooks so I can start using the Partridge brand. My Tiemco hooks 100 SPBL #14 are slightly bigger than the Partridge Dry Fly Supreme #14. Same shape and gap. I then compared a size #16 Tiemco to the #14 Part. hook and found that the Tiemco #16 is a bit shorter. If the Part. hook was a Tiemco, it would be a size #15.

    I know across the pond they do have odd size hooks as well as even size, but it’s listed on the packs what size they are. Maybe the hooks there are just slightly different in size, a little smaller to allow the odd sizes. Who knows?

    This just came to mind. Who has the rights or authority to say how long a certain sized hook should be? Mustad has been around since the mid 1800’s giving them a solid foot in manufacturing hooks. But you can pull up comparison charts all day and you will see differences. Who made the rule where a #14 hook should be this long in a dry fly hook or a wet hook and so on? On who’s authority, Partridge or Mustad, Tiemco, Dai-Riki, Orvis, who?

    Partridge Dry Fly Supreme L5A hooks are smaller than the Tiemco 101 & 100.

    Partridge Dry Fly K1A will match a Tiemco 100 & 101.

    I understand there are different styles in a certain hook series, like dry fly hooks, but it seems to e that with more variations, it allows shaky ground for what #14 hook size should be, as in the base hook. Base hook as in, this is the first hook made, and all others will derive from this hook. Like how Adam is the base for man. He was the first, all others came from him, but we are all different sizes.

    I did find this to be interesting:

    In ancient times hooks were made individually by local artisans. Since there was no method of mass production they were likely made to order or made in small lots for later sale or barter.

    Sport angling in England began to take hold after Dame Juliana wrote “The Bake of St. Albans” in 1486. We can speculate that with increased interest in sport angling there was a greater demand for a supply of hooks to meet the developing market. The craftsmen best able to produce quantities of hooks at that time were needle makers. Hooks are essentially bent needles fitted with a barb.

    Large scale mass production of fish hooks was first began and then dominated by England and Scandinavia manufacturers. This started when the first stamping machine that drilled eyes in needles was put in operation in England in 1826. Norwegian and Swedish fish hook makers, working in England around that time, then returned to their native lands with their skills. In 1832 the famous Mustad Company was founded at Oslo. Many of the processes that had been done by hand in the English factories began to be performed by machines that were later developed in Scandinavia.

    It sounds to me that Mustad hooks derived from Partridge hooks from this article.

    A Rich History… As the name implies, Partridge of Redditch has its origins in Mount Pleasant, Redditch, Worcestershire. Both the town and the district were renowned for specialist metal work for generations, needle and hook making in particular. It is not easy to establish when this started, but according to one likely theory it started with the existence of a large monastery at Redditch. The monks were reputed to have been skilled artisans, and when Henry VIII dissolved the brotherhood the monks were taken in by leading Catholic families in the area, obviously putting their skills to use. From there, processing steel and specialized metal work were developed and refined.

    In the early days needle making and hook making went hand in hand; the techniques developed for making needles could be applied in making hooks as well. Steel wire was drawn in Birmingham and then sent out to needle and hook producers in adjacent towns such as Studley, Alcester, Henley-in Arden and Redditch. In the middle of the nineteenth century Redditch seemed to establish itself as the main hook-producing centre. In the second half of the nineteenth century, the transition from pure handwork to industrial production made Redditch famous for excellent fish hooks throughout the world. In this period they actually dominated the world market.

    The early history of Partridge is somewhat obscure. We know that it was started on the basis of existing hook manufacturing shortly after the turn of the nineteenth century, but no one knows the exact year any longer. What we do know, however, is that it has been the only British sport hook manufacturer who has been able to survive and create a name for itself in the twentieth century. Partridge of Redditch bears its name from the founder Albert Partridge. He left the firm to his son Ted, who sold it to Alan Bramley in 1970 when none of his children were interested to take over the company.

    HMMMM?

    #7901

    Creek
    Spectator

    No, i’m saying I knew but forgot. I know the spiders I sent you are correct. Those hooks came from my Brit friend who is a fanatic for spiders and their history.

    #7902

    Scotty MacFly
    Spectator

    I knew you’d know. That’s why I thought of you first, but it sounds like alzheimers may be messing with you? 😀

    I guess I answered one of my questions and didn’t realize it. Partridge is the company that set the standard for hook sizes. Why then did all the other hook companies screw it up?

    And I cannot for the life of me find any info on what brands of hooks and sizes were used here in the USA prior to WWII. Did we not have any hook companies here back then?

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  Scotty MacFly.
    #7904

    Grsdlnr
    Spectator

    I cannot for the life of me find any info on what brands of hooks and sizes were used here in the USA prior to WWII. Did we not have any hook companies here back then?

    Some Background on Eagle Claw hooks

    #7905

    Scotty MacFly
    Spectator

    Grs, you’re a flipping genious.

    I knew that. I must have caught Alzheimer’s that Creek had.

    Why I didn’t think of Eagle Claw? That’s embarrassing as hell.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  Scotty MacFly.
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