we're all hypocrites

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This topic contains 5 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Scotty MacFly 1 year, 4 months ago.

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    Scotty MacFly

    Yes we are.

    I was watching a nice little you tube video, and the host was fishing a stream in higher altitudes during the run off period. The show took place in Montana, and he was catching small brookies. Now he mentioned even though the fish were born in this stream, they were not native.


    Boy did that open up something in my little mind.

    Fishermen sure jump at that non native species a lot when it comes to fishing, don’t we. Yeah we do.

    In CO. there is no limit on pike or whitefish. Steamboat Res. has many pike, and the fish & game would love for you to catch as many as you can & take them out. They are not native, so they don’t belong.
    CO. has lots of non-native species, and yet most are protected by bag limits, like the bass, walleye, and don’t forget the browns, rainbows.

    Now, this thread is not to be political or offensive in any way, but in this day and age, I think we need to wake up, grow up, and deal with the truth.

    I have seen bumper stickers that say Colorado Native. I now, after watching that video, and reading creeks thoughts and mine about non-native fish like brookies, realized, that in this country, most people are not natives at all. Citizens, yes, but not natives. We have an immigration problem, and to be honest, it started with, pardon the expression, the white man. The ONLY natives are the Indians, the rest of us are non-natives, no matter what state we were born in.

    This is a country that is supposed to welcome in new people, as long as they do it legally and become a citizen. Fish don’t have that option, they just get transplanted in different ways and dropped off. Then they adapt to their new surroundings as we do.

    So to not make this thread go on & on, I no longer care if a fish are non-natives if they are not the greenbacks. If brown trout have been in a river for a hundred years and still not be considered natives, after so many generations, than neither are we, or can we consider ourselves natives. Unless you happen to be an American Indian. And yes, I know many Indians came across the Bering Straight, but lets not get picky here. That’s not what this threads about.

    I just find it funny how humans can so easily and quickly call something non-native, but refuse to see most of us are in the same water as the non-native fish. And yes, non-native fish like brookies will hurt the environment for other fish by competing for food, breeding, and shelter. Sounds just like humans in a way.

    We are all hypocrites. I may have been born in this country, just barely, but I was, but my family came from Scotland. Creek, you say you’re Italian. When talking of nationalities, I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say they are American. It’s always something else, French, German, Asian, whatever. So we all live in the same country, and call ourselves Americans only to foreigners. While 3 weeks in Mexico, I considered myself as an American. I have a passport saying I’m an American citizen, not an American native.

    So if we are to get rid of non-native fish that are hurting our favorite fisheries, then maybe we should start with us…..or just except it and move on, just as we do with people.

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by  Scotty MacFly.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by  Scotty MacFly.


    if we are to get rid of non-native fish that are hurting our favorite fisheries, then maybe we should start with us….

    Fair point – human activity (pollution, logging, road building, dams, etc) is the biggest threat to all wild species, native and non-native alike. And that does include “bucket biologists” who dump non-native fish where they don’t belong (I’d love to see the idiots who introduced lake trout into Yellowstone Lake drawn and quartered)

    FWIW, I consider myself a non-hyphenated American. Mostly because it’s way too time consuming to say Scots-German-Portuguese-Native-American. 😉



    Scotty, you’re confusing humans with fish. Yes, i’m Italian. It’s possible if it could be done to trace my heritage all the way back to Adam and Eve that i’m from an area we now call Italy. We all go back to somewhere and that’s what we are native of. We also use a different system for humans. We are native to where we are born. It’s easier to understand that way. To be honest. I was born in America, but I always considered myself Italian more that anything else. It describes me better as to what I look like and so many other ways too. You could never say he looks like an American. What would that be? You could look like anybody in the world as long as you were born here.

    Fish are different. Fish can’t move from Germany to Colorado by themselves. Fish native to Colorado are the ones God put here. Maybe easier to understand that it’s the fish that were here when man showed up. Including the Indians.

    BTW…Go back far enough and the Indians aren’t native to the US either.

    So, i’m sorry Scotty. As far as man knows. The only trout native to Colorado are the Cutthroat. Which means they were the only trout here when man showed up. We have no records before that.


    Scotty MacFly

    Grs, thank you.

    Creek, you said that we use a different system, that we are native to where we are born. I know that as well as anyone.
    Watching that video I guess reminded me on how people look at others, and other things and are quick to call out things without looking at ourselves first.



    I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not? I didn’t see the video.

    I don’t feel like i’m a hypocrite about our native fish.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by  Creek.

    Scotty MacFly

    No Creek. We are hypocrites about ourselves. That’s what I’m saying. We all originated from somewhere else, just like the brookies originated from back east, Penn. WV., for example. They were here in the USA before the white man, and the white man settled in the eastern part of the country first, then gradually moved west. Now, again for example, I can say I am a native of Colorado, but the rainbows, browns, and brookies that have been in these waters longer than I have been alive, we can’t say they are native fish.

    Granted, it’s one of the things that popped in my head and it’s difficult for me to explain because I can understand it in my head, the point I’m trying to make, but can’t get it out in writing. I do know it’s not to be taken too seriously, or racist towards others, my goodness, absolutely not racist in any aspect.

    Man, talk about opening up a box of flies and finding nothing but worms..augh! Ha ha.

    I intended this to be a light hearted topic, but it got a little deep, and it’s not anyone’s fault but my own.

    One more attempt. If you took me fishing, and I had never fished before, and I caught a rainbow in a creek where native cutthroat live, you’d say that the rainbow is not native to these waters. And you would be correct. But they are here, and have been here a very, very long time. Well, you can say the same thing about yourself, and I as well, along with pretty much everyone. But the fact is, non-native fish are here, and they are here to stay. The damage has been done, and we have to deal with it.
    We are not truly natives to this country, but we have been here a long time, some longer than others, but we are not going anywhere, just like the fish. But we as humans can re-write the rules when it comes to ourselves, but not to other species.

    And GRS, touched it on another level I was trying to make too. We as humans do hurt the ecosystem of our fish, in all states. We are a threat to them too. I don’t know who brought the rainbows, browns, and brookies here to this state, but you know what, and this is the root of what I guess I’m trying to say.

    Natives, or non-natives, does it really matter anymore? That’s what I’m trying to say. Damn, should have said that from the beginning. 😀

    I would love to see the greenback cutthroat make an historical return to these waters, I really would. But as for the non-native fish that have been here for a long time, I’m glad they are here too.

    Here’s the video if interested. I’m sure you all have seen it.

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